Ecumenism by Peter Kreeft
Brandon linked this talk by Peter Kreeft in the comment below. I got a chance to listen to it last night. As always, he has very interesting ideas and he communicates them well. I do think he simplifies things a lot. I don’t think he believes things are that simple. He is just trying to sketch some things out. He talks a lot about the positives of protestantism and very little about the problems it has. He does talk about the problems the catholic church has. In some ways that is fair as a Catholic addressing a protestant crowd. You want to encourage your brothers and sisters and make clear you respect them. But it can go too far. He made it sound like the whole problem is on the Catholics. I don’t mind that when talking to Catholics. It is good to focus on the part of the problem you own and leave the Holy Spirit to work on correcting your separated brothers. But when talking to protestants it leaves the impression they should just wait for the Catholic church to transform itself into something more appealing. They may wait a long time.
The truth is protestants like Peter Kreeft and myself and many others are coming into the church today. It is good for us and it is good for the church. We can bring some of the good things of protestantism that Kreeft is referring to. We don’t lose those things when we convert. We just enrich them. Most of the things we see as typical strengths of protestants are individual things. They are not so much church things. The ability to talk about your faith and reason within your faith. There is nothing stopping you from doing that as a Catholic and teaching other Catholics to do it as well.
What bothers me is when he calls that making Catholics protestant. I get what he is saying. But that is not the essence of what it means to be protestant. What is at the center of protestantism is also found in the Catholic church. That is the idea of your own personal theology. To varying degrees protestants will all have their pet doctrines that they will not submit to the teaching authority of the body of Christ. Many Catholics have the same issue when a teaching gets hard. They just reject it and assume the problem is really with the church. What they have done is embrace protestant thinking.
Kreeft points out that many Catholics have a worse problem with this kind of dissent than protestants do. I think it is more true in the academic world where Kreeft lives. Catholic scholars tend to be a lot more liberal than protestant scholars. But I would say that is because the protestant scholars have embraced Catholic tradition more firmly than their Catholic brothers. So it gets confusing. But it does not help to talk about Catholics becoming more protestant.
His idea of spiritual gravity is also a bit off. He assumes that protestants are moving towards the true Jesus rather than a distorted image of Jesus they have convinced themselves is true. If that was the case then protestants would all come together. But they don’t. Kreeft does not seem to see this as a major problem. It is huge. Yes, Catholics need to take their faith more seriously. That would make Catholicism much more attractive. But there are some that are doing that already. We need more but we need to get them from strong protestant fellowships as well as strengthening some lukewarm Catholics. It does not matter where you are you have a responsibility to move to that center. That center is Jesus revealed to us in His body, the church. We need to have the courage to go there no matter what the cost. It starts with a few saints and can grow from there.
Obedience produces unity. Unity gives a powerful witness. That witness draws more people to the center. Their obedience produces greater unity…
I still agree with the statement that ‘Catholics, to become better Catholics, need to become more Protestant’. You are right in saying that this statement is probably more palatable to a Protestant crowd than in front of a Catholic congregation. I think, however, that your distaste comes from Kreeft’s definition of ‘Protestant’ in the broader sense–namely a faith that emphasizes a relationship with Jesus.
Me and you both know that Protestantism is deeper and more layered than that, but if you define your terms as Kreeft did, than Catholics would do well to embrace the Protestant ideal of a ‘personal relationship with Jesus’. The only problem is that while they should unite with the Bridegroom, they must embrace their role as the Bride, which is what the Church aims to do for them.
I think Kreeft is basically saying Catholics should pursue the Protestant ideal, but even then there is more within the Catholic Church. We both claim to be chasing the same thing (a personal relationship with Christ), but the Church helps us go further up and further in.
November 5th, 2009 at 1:57 pmI understand that. I just don’t buy it. Protestants do have some real strengths that Catholics lack. I think saying generically that protestants have a personal relationship with Jesus and Catholics do not is way to strong. I know Kreeft does not mean the fullness of what that implies. Otherwise he would not be Catholic.
I would say protestants are more comfortable talking about their relationship with Jesus. We need to learn to do that better. I have not figured out how to get cradle Catholics to do that. But I have learned to respect their spirituality. Just because they don’t fight their corner does not mean they don’t have a deep and powerful faith.
I am reminded of Kreeft’s quote about Martin Luther being “simply right”. He had a good point but he made it to simply. What happened is that gets brought up a zillion times in a misleading way by protestant apologists. I can see some of his quotes here being used that way. I don’t think I disagree with a lot of what he said. I just feel he needs to avoid statements like “protestants have Jesus and Catholics don’t”.
November 5th, 2009 at 3:00 pm