More Politcs
I knew when I brought up politics I would get the typical partisan rant as a response. Devin Rose is a good guy. We are both converts and programmers and bloggers. I have read his blog and seen his comments on other blogs so I know he is quite bright and a very serious Catholic. It is guys like him that disappoint me when they take such an uncritical view of the Bush administration. I don’t mean to single him out. I was disappointed by many evangelical thinkers before I became Catholic and before Bush was on the scene. As I became Catholic I noticed my new tradition was still socially conservative but much more liberal on a lot of other issues. That was awesome because I always thought that was the correct Christian place to be. The other thing I noticed was that most converts had not changed their political thinking when they changed their religious thinking. I guess I had not changed mine either. Still I found it disappointing to interact on politics because you just got 27 reasons to vote Republican.
Devin thinks it will be a disaster of Obama gets elected. He personalizes his objections but he really does not object to the man but rather to the party. If Clintion or Edwards or Kerry or Gore were the nominee he would write the same reply. What he really wants is for no Democrat to ever win. But would that not make the US a one party state? Is that a good thing? We need to get to a place where we can change parties in Washington and not have a disaster on the pro life front.
The pro life cause does not seem to understand that it needs to be bigger than the Republican cause. In fact, many seem like they care more about the Republican party. Everything you win through partisan means will be reversed when the other party gets power. That is a given. So when you choose a strategy of hitching your issue to one party you have to expect that to happen. That is not acceptable on issues of life so we need to be effective in both major parties.
The thing I worry about more is the connection in people’s minds between what is Christian and what is Republican. I think it is just tragic but people do believe that to be Christian is to be politically conservative. That is to not care about immigrants, to not care about health care for the poor, to not care about the environment, etc. It is a basic fact that the church cannot avoid making what will be seen as infallible statements about the nature of God as revealed to us by Jesus. People see Christians leaders flocking to one side of an issue and they assume that is where Christian thought leads. The trouble is that on many issues they have gotten it wrong. They have not thought with the mind of Christ but simply bought into the tweedle-dee vs tweedle-dum partisanship. They have just picked one side and accepted everything that comes with it. It has seriously damaged the cause of Christ.
Just look at how many more people self identify as atheists than when Bush took office. They associate Christianity with war. Why? They look at Bush. They associate it with torture. Same reason. Is it fair? Not at all. There are many Christians who have spoken out against war and against torture. Many of them are Catholic. Still Bush is visible and he is understandably associated with the Christian Right. So Dawkins and Hitchens have an easy time because they are just putting an intellectual veneer on what people already think.
Anyway, politics is interesting. It is hard when you see very major problems on both sides. On a human level Obama stikes me as the most impressive leader I have seen in a while. I wonder what it will all mean. I don’t have trouble seeing positives in it. I am hoping the social conservatives in the Democratic party start making some noise. There are a lot of church-going blacks and Catholics in there. They are not happy about abortion or gay marriage. They have been pretty quiet about it so far. I am hopeful that could change. One thing that could help would be for prominent pro life Catholics to become less partisan so people on the other side of the aisle can listen.
They really are capable of understanding the moral arguments. It is just that nobody from their tribe is making them. They are not even required to respond to them because the Republicans don’t make them in public debates. Like the SLED argument found here. I have never seen a Democrat have to debate this in depth. We need to make them do it.
Hi Randy,
I would like to respond to your statements here, as well, if I may.
I agree with what you are saying here. Identifying Christianity with the Republican political party, or any political party, is dangerous and should not be done. Neither party’s platform aligns with Catholic teaching on every issue.
You are also correct in saying that my objections to Senator Obama apply to the Democratic party’s platform as a whole, so I was against Gore, was against Kerry, and am against Obama.
Senator Obama has been given many talents and gifts by God. He is a good communicator and has a good presence. He is more charismatic that Senator McCain (or Gore, or Kerry, or Bush). I also think he is sincere in his beliefs.
All that being said, I do not identify with the Republican party “just because”, but I support their candidates in so far as those candidates stand for the truth, especially with regard to the most important issues our faith and reason inform us on. If the Republicans turn tomorrow and support abortion and same-sex marriage, then I will not support them. If the Democrats turn tomorrow and defend the dignity of human life from conception to natural death and the truth of marriage, I will support them.
I totally agree with you that we pro-lifers must be bigger than the Republican party, and even all politics.
Politics is only one forum where we seek to build a better world, yet it is an important one.
The Democratic party has chosen to muzzle groups within itself, like Democrats for Life, which seek to evangelize the party from within. They are not given a voice nor much say within the party. I hope that this changes, but it is the reality today.
I listed several good things President Bush has done but also said there are things he has done I disagree with. I strongly disagree with torturing people–it should stop and never be done again–and with deciding to go to war in Iraq, to name two important issues. McCain support embryonic stem cell research with embryos that have already been created: I strongly disagree with that.
Randy, I like how you said we are fellow programmers and converts and bloggers–keep on rocking!
June 23rd, 2008 at 1:05 pmThanks for that Devin. I am sorry if I got your opinion wrong on some points. It was your comment that sparked my thoughts but I kind of drifted past what you said. I don’t live in the US so I don’t have the issue of how to vote. I think Obama is going to win big but we will see.
I am interested in why the Democratic part ended up where they did. Not just them. In Canada all the parties are similar. Same thing in Europe. Of course all those groups have zero respect for George Bush on mnay issues. I am not sure what it is about the liberal mindset that seems to not understand the pro life position. You ask a Republican and they say it because liberals are just idiots. Yet they understand that most ivy league professors are liberal. But we are sure they are all idiots. Thanks for that.
I just wonder how to change the game. It seems the Christian causes are losing. Is there much we can do? Do we want to write the Republicans a blank cheque? It seems wrong to ignore major errors like getting into bad wars. You seem the exception in even saying the war was wrong. Many don’t say that because it is likely to help the Democrats.
June 23rd, 2008 at 4:14 pmRandy,
No problem, I totally understand, and it is definitely a temptation that people fall into (myself included sometimes) to conflate Bush and Christianity and the Good, giving him a free pass on things he has done which are wrong in order not to open up the door further for those who hate him and who oppose all the truly good things he has done.
June 25th, 2008 at 6:29 am“The thing I worry about more is the connection in people’s minds between what is Christian and what is Republican. I think it is just tragic but people do believe that to be Christian is to be politically conservative. That is to not care about immigrants, to not care about health care for the poor, to not care about the environment, etc. ”
I just stumbled upon this blog, but I really love this statement. It sums up how I often feel.
July 31st, 2008 at 10:21 am