Never Believe Anything
The problem is people believe things and refuse to question it. If Hitler was willing to consider he was wrong, he might not have gone on the killing spree.
This comes from Samuel Skinner’s comment on the last post. It says in a few words what Steve Palvina says in many. That is that there is some sort of advantage to not holding to any particular belief system. That you can dismiss all religions without even asking if they are true. They are just inherently bad because they cause you to believe things. Here is Steve:
One of the worst mistakes you can make in life is to attach your identity to any particular religion or philosophy, such as by saying “I am a Christian” or “I am a Buddhist.” This forces your mind into a fixed perspective, robbing you of spiritual depth perception and savagely curtailing your ability to perceive reality accurately. If that sounds like a good idea to you, you’ll probably want to gouge out one of your eyeballs too. Surely you’ll be better off with a single, fixed perspective instead of having to consider two separate image streams… unless of course you’ve become attached to stereo vision.
Notice how Steve has not forced his mind into a fixed perspective at all. He is totally open to Buddhism or Christianity. It is the typical modern tendency to be skeptical of everything and think that somehow makes you intelligent. It is like looking for a wife. If you date one woman then you limit your perspective. You say “no” to everyone else so you can explore the one option. If you marry her you make that a permanent rejection of everyone else to pursue that one relationship. That allows you to have a family and experience a depth of love that would not be possible without making that commitment. Now if you marry the wrong person that can be a very bad thing. Steve and Samuel seem to think it is always a bad thing just because you have closed yourself off from so many other options. They can only see what you lose and nothing of what you gain.
With religion and marriage you only have really one chance. You are giving yourself totally and you can only do that to one religion and one spouse. So how do you choose which faith is true? Well, they seem to have a definite bias against comprehensive systems of thought. They seem to much prefer to create their own belief system. In fact, they seem to go out of their way to attack the Catholic church. Again they seem to want to dismiss it not based on a lack of truth but just on the very fact that you are accepting something from outside yourself.
But what are you looking for? Are we not seeking the meaning and purpose of life? Certainly we can’t find that in ourselves. We didn’t decide to come into existence. If we are here for a reason that reason must come from some intelligence beyond humans. That means God. So if there is a God and humans have been trying to connect with him and perhaps He has been trying to connect with us then it makes sense that those efforts might have produced some fruit. To think that there is nothing to learn from others who have contemplated God is quite strange. Why think you can succeed where others have failed?
Maybe they would say you can learn something from others but somehow accepting it as a true and complete belief system is going to far. But that introduces a fuzzy line of how much you can take from one faith before you have become a de facto adherent. There is just no logical reason to think one faith would not be basically right. Why rule that out before you start?
The other thing to consider is that God is trying to reveal Himself to us. If He is then we should see evidence of that. It might well take the form of a religion that goes back to antiquity and is based around certain supernatural events and revelations. Of course, this is the claim Christianity makes for itself. That is that God revealed Himself through Abraham and through Moses and most especially through Jesus. So how can a claim like that be tested? Well, you would expect a long and consistent revelation. You would expect signs and miracles. You would expect this teaching to change the world and change it for the better. The point is there can be and should be a way to think about claims that somebody is revealing God to us. We should not just accept it. Still, it could be true. There is no logical reason why it could not be. If it is true we need to respond. Can we explain to the God of the universe that we don’t want to force our lives into a fixed perspective? No. Once we have found the person who has created us and gives our lives meaning and purpose then we give ourselves to Him. If that means also giving ourselves to a religion than so be it.
I note Steve is married. So he has closed himself off to a loving relationship depth perception.
Also, it just occurred to me that he contradicted himself outright. Wouldn’t tuning into one religion be like mono? And trying to emulate bits of Christianity and Buddhism (his seemingly two pet religions) be more like stereo?
Either way, I certainly feel that being a Christian gives me stereo perception, rather than the limited mono.
May 30th, 2008 at 10:34 am
I think we are all mono is a real sense. That is one key reason we need the church. Our mind can only see the world in the light of our own thinking, experiences, desires, etc. That can be good or bad. We only get the whole picture when we learn from those who are very different than us. Still we see better walking in the light than we do walking in darkness.
May 30th, 2008 at 12:27 pmI don’t believe you and I question your conclusion.
Like shootin’ fish in a barrel.
June 9th, 2008 at 7:23 pmYou will respond in thought by saying well that religion is also there for you to “see, feel, judge, and experience.” But alas the relationship is much different as with faith the interaction is not direct because you place much of your interactions in faith. Marriage has no concept of faith or uncertainty in the sense (I emphasize “in the sense”) that religion does.
December 15th, 2008 at 2:15 am
Also after re-reading both articles, you seem to be twisting his words and putting words in his mouth “poisoning” the information. You deviate from the actual original argument against him and try to prove your religion.
December 15th, 2008 at 2:24 amAs for your point about uncertainty. I know lots of people who feel less certain about choosing their spouse than they are about choosing their religion. You have to distinguish between knowing religious traditions and knowing God. I can compare the Catholic, Protestant, Hindu, Buddist, and Moslem faiths without really delving into the mysteries of who God is and who I am. The traditons are mich less mysterious that God Himself.
You can have a relationship with God without someone telling you what he wants. You can find whats right if you just think.
That is a statement of faith that is either true or false. You are, for example, denying the need to have a relationship with Jesus to know God. So you are choosing in favor of some religous traditions who would accept this statment and against some that would not. So you are doing the very thing this article says not to do.
I am not trying to prove my religion. I am just arguing for following any religous ideas to their logical conclusion. If you want to be atheist then push atheism and try to go where it leads. If you can’t go there then you need to question it. Same with Catholicism or anything else. Test everything. Don’t be afaid of the truth you might find.
December 15th, 2008 at 9:19 amYou state:
“That is a statement of faith that is either true or false. You are, for example, denying the need to have a relationship with Jesus to know God. So you are choosing in favor of some religous traditions who would accept this statment and against some that would not. So you are doing the very thing this article says not to do.”
The article says not to restrict yourself to living a close-minded life by choosing only the views of one religion. What Josh is saying is, in essence, God is not a “religious” icon so much as a “spiritual” icon and therefore worshipping “God” does not have to be tied to religion. You can worship God without tying yourself to literally ANYTHING, simply by doing your own thing. This is what the article promotes.
Your views are restricting your argument, as you’re confined to believing that God is a Christian icon, and that anyone making an argument about God is making an argument about the Christian God, in essence… YOUR God. Again, this is the reason Steve is trying to open people’s minds.
December 31st, 2008 at 3:31 pmBut his argument does not work then. What he was saying is that you don’t want to close yourself off by committing to one religion. You are stating his position as actually advocating being closed. That is rejecting any faith that wants to tie you to any thing. Which pretty much rules out all religion because they inevitably require you to do or believe or not do or not believe something. So rather than keeping both eyes open to see better he is really saying close both eyes to avoid being fooled.
Your views are restricting your argument, as you’re confined to believing that God is a Christian icon, and that anyone making an argument about God is making an argument about the Christian God, in essence… YOUR God. Again, this is the reason Steve is trying to open people’s minds.
That is my perspective. If you want to explain what you believe about God or humanity that is different from Christian thinking I am happy to listen. I will likely be skeptical but I shall try and be fair.
I do not refuse to look at non-Christian beliefs. In fact, Catholics are forbidden to take such a position. Vatican II requires us to listen to anybody’s religious thought and even tells us we should expect to learn and grow to be better Catholics by doing so. That includes atheists, anti-Catholics, anybody.
December 31st, 2008 at 4:33 pm
As a follow up, perhaps Steve read your post and took it to heart. He began exploring polyamory in his marriage and now his marriage is ending…the universe has unfolded into its full potential! I’d say it’s a shame, but he seems very proud of the spiritual maturity of their decision.
October 31st, 2009 at 3:16 pm